Could anyone shed some light on a popular European belief that one should not eat fruit after dinner, that combining protein with meat is unacceptable and that there is an order in which to eat your food and plan your meals?

Hi ssc,
Meat is an excellent source of complete protein so that puts that one to bed and eating fruit as snack food at anytime is better than most other foods. Balancing food has some merit for instance meat produces acid so if you blend it with vegetables that are alkaline your stomach would like it better. Bacon and eggs are quite a departure from cornflakes and oats but they are both considered breakfast foods, I am not recommending bacon and eggs by saying this. A better way to look at meal selection would be to breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dinner like a pauper.
Cheers

Hello!
I'm European , but I don't think it's right to say that it's not recommended to eat fruit after dinner. It is more important to eat fruit on regular daily basis - when I open my eyes, the first thing that goes there is an apple, I try to eat fruit as much as it's possible. Combining food is always interesting subject, and I think that it has many influence on your weight. Proper diet (combining food) can indeed help you lose some weight and make you feel healthier and better - after all, I am the living example

Hi Crouser,
Welcome to the forum. I have to disagree with this comment.
(Combining food is always interesting subject, and I think that it has many influence on your weight. Proper diet (combining food) can indeed help you lose some weight and make you feel healthier and better - after all, I am the living example biggrin.gif biggrin.gif)

How can combining food change it's energy level? If food has a set kilojoule/calorie content then merely changing the order in which you eat it will have no effect, not on weight gain or anything else, if you consistently eat 10,000 kilojoules your body will expand to this energy requirement.
Cheers

Well said john,
Heres my take, Breakfast like a King, Lunch like a King, Dinner like a King and healthy Snacks like a Pauper. Good proper well balaced nutrition in an abundance throughout the day makes the fat deposits go away!! ....Tony - Getyourleanon.com

Hi All,
Combining certain types of nutrients (foods) has an affect on breakdown and absorption rate. E.G eating an apple will have a glycemic rate of 39, the rate at which sugars are absorbed into the blood stream thus either used for energy or shuttled of to be stored. Now simply combining the apple with a hand full of nuts will change this glycemic rate having a direct effect on ones blood glucose level, this will have an effect on ones insulin release and hormones. Even though the apple combined with a hand full of nuts has a higher caloric intake, you will be able to control and loss weight more efficiently. Thus Shooting the theory a CALORIE is a CALORIE when it comes to energy and weight loss….Tony - getyourleanon.com

I understand if you disagree - you can't change the fact of calorie amounts entered in one's body, different types of food have similar amount of calories, but nutrition value is different (if we take sweets for instance - typical candies have around 350 cal/100g and of all other ingredients only carbohydrates - when you compare it with dried apricot (which is also sweet) which is around 280 cal/100g, but besides carbohydrates contains decent amount of calcium, phosphor, potassium, vitamin A...of course I'd choose apricot).
Many books and studies gave me contradictory information - from the fact that combining food in manner that you eat "proteins" for one meal, and "carbohydrates" for another meal will make you lose your weight to the statement about fruit which said something like "eating fruit after certain meal is not good and has no effect because it will rotten in your stomach while waiting to be digested...I was trying to find any logical explanation for that "rotten fruit" matter and I only found studies that were denying this statement.
Only logical conclusion I could make is to try it on myself - so I did it - I felt much better after having big bowl of rice and salad with few bites of bread for one meal, instead changing half of this bowl rice with one steak.

The point is to separate recommended amount of our calorie needs in several (well balanced) meals instead of only two or three big (and unfortunately "fast food" oriented) portions.

Good night (it's 9 PM in Croatia right now...)

Well I have always felt that if you eat your biggest meal first and then diminish the meals in size as the day goes on, you have more of a chance to burn those calories with your daily activities and exercises throughout the day from the big meal you ate early in the day. Does anyone else share this philosophy?

Hello!
I think you are right (although I don't always use that "eating schedule" ) and sometimes it depends of the work you must finish after your meal. If I'm sitting whole day at my PC looking at monitor it is more appropriate to have a lighter food (of course, with as bigger as possible nutritive value), but if I'm to go to work in some metal factory I'd surely take a bigger meal first. I guess we are all individuals with different needs and customs, and as long as we try to achieve healthier way of eating (and with that - living, of course) I don't think we could make major mistakes. It is important not to run ahead to something new without proper knowledge (like "entering" vegans without knowing our basic needs for proteins, etc...)

Greetings

Tony this is pure obfuscation, 10,000 calories to much is 10,000 calories to much and if you go and study Newtons Second Law of Thermodynamics you will learn about the properties of calories, you can not hide them, and it doesn't matter whether they come from eating cardboard or fruit, you will still get fat. Following your eating plan would be a disaster for most people, remember Americans hold the dubious distinction of being the fattest race on the planet at this point in time. At the end of the day something has to be done to reverse this poor pathology, and it wont happen by simply confusing people. Good simple accurate advice is whats required, such as the advice given on HealthCastle's home page. Everyone should be reading this and if they were I am sure a lot of these posts would never see the light of day.

Alternative advice on weightloss abound,
Following this eating plan is quite unsound.
As a nutritional counselor I think your unfit,
If I was you I would simply quit.

Only joking Tony, the more contributors on here the better.

N=1 is never enough to extrapolate information to the general public and correlation is never causation, unless you are working in a hard physically demanding job you do not require very many calories( *4.2 Kilojoules) in your diet. Trying to eat to make sure you cover all of the contingencies each day is a sure way to get fat. rich.branson is spot on with what he said about the eating plan. Food consumed should always be of high quality in terms of nutrient content, I never eat takeaways, biscuits, cake or drink soft drink, I practice what I preach and my body mass index is 23.5 ( I am trying to reduce it further to 22). I jog or racewalk from 5.30AM to 6.30 AM each morning, and work in my health clinic all day.


http://www.philsport.com/narf/c1per.htm

Cheers

Once again John you spout big talk but have nothing but theory to back it up. A theory is somebody’s mathematical assumption, like many other theories, they work fine on paper but fail the true test in life. A calorie is by no means a calorie to the human body. Your body assimilates different (foods) types of nutrients differently, I am and have living proof to back me and my claims up. Explain to me john, the function of the body and the processes of what would happen if you ate 500 calories from straight lean protein compared to 500 calories from fruit, What would be the effect and how would it be digested and stored? You have no idea what my nutrition back ground is or my nutrition plan is even about. I have personally helped hundreds of people change they’re lives but yet you sit and ridicule me for what I know to be true. With all your bogus rant, what exactly do you do for a living? And just to let you know my BMI is 32 and I am 6’2” 260lbs and 6% body fat, so there shoots another one of your theories - Get out of the text and into the real world my friend.

Hi Tony,
Sorry I got up your goat like that but I was not ridiculing you at all, I was pointing out that you was introducing something into the equation that was going to confuse rather than simplify. Glycaemic index is important for energy release, especially for diabetics and protein controls satiety which is the reason the Atkins diet works, albeit unsafely. There is the same number of calories in carbohydrates as protein ( 4 cals/gram), but the body breaks them down in a different order. The order the body uses calories (energy/kilojoules) is in this order.
1. Alcohol - the body can not store calories from alcohol so it burns them first.
2. Protein comes second.
3. Carbohydrate is third.
4. Fat comes last- and this is where you can get into trouble by introducing to much alcohol into the diet you may spare the calories from fat.

Tony - we are both right here a calorie is/isn't only a calorie depending what you are using it for. You do want sugar released slowly into the bloodstream to avoid pushing up the sugar levels, but what I said is also correct.
If your daily energy intake equals your daily energy expenditure you will not experience weight gain, if intake exceeds usage you will put on weight irrespective of where those calories came from, and inversely if usage exceeds supply you will lose weight.

In the completed research I have seen there was no difference in weight loss between high fat diet or low fat diet, they both worked equally well, but on the low fat diet people were hungry because of a lack of protein. A high fat diet is not a safe diet to adopt for any length of time, and to much protein puts a big strain on the kidneys. The amount of protein required in a diet for a body builder is higher than the protein required for ordinary people, normally a person involved in resistance exercise would require 1.6 - 1.7 grms of protein/kg/day (2.2Lbs=1Kg), endurance athletes would require 1.2 - 1.4 Grms/Kg/day and ordinary people would require about 55 Grms of protein per day. Just checking your BMI Tony I worked you out ( using your figures) to be 33.4 BMI. Your body fat percentage is very low so I assume you are an elite athlete, I was once as well. I work full time in my own health clinic treating people for health disorders using natural methods, I have a Bachelor degree and 6 Diplomas in health, I qualified as a nutritionist 5/9/ 1981 , I taught full contact Karate from 1973 until Dec , 2003 I am a 5th Dan, and I was open weight Champion South Coast /Southern Districts undefeated for 6 years until I retired so I do know about exercise and conditioning.

What is your background, and once again I apologise for upsetting you, I should have chosen my words better.
I have been proven wrong in things before and I am happy to admit it when it happens.
Cheers

Hey John,
Sorry also if I had went off, its usually not my nature nor does it look very professional when coming to try to help people that truly need help and direction. My studies are of physiology and nutrition, I have also been an extreme athlete my whole life including, ball sports, boxing and a competitive bodybuilder. Your credentials are very impressive and the thing I like the most about you is you keep me on my toes and challenge me to continue to learn. Some times this is what pushes somebody to a new level of awareness. Lets continue to stay in contact John much valuable information is what is needed especially in America where our obesity rate is now over 30%. You are probably right about the confusion factor, maybe I need to keep it simple. Thanks again John…Tony

Hi Tony,
Thank you, I admire the way you have come back here, I also was a boxing champion, no3 in my state with wins over the people rated above me. I wasn't going to mention boxing because of the reputation of the participants.When my kids were going through University they used to bring a lot of young scientists to stay at our house, some were mathematicians, physicists,MD's and chemists, my wife used to love to cut me down by saying she had never met a clever boxer. I am glad you replied like you did I am sure we can contribute a bit to this forum and if we only can help a few people it's all worthwhile.
Cheers

ive started exercising heavily lately and am trying to keep from dropping weight. This is from doing workouts on the erg(rowing machine) and also road biking. I can usualy get about 1000 calories in 1 hour on the erg, and i have no idea about the biking. I eat all kinds of food, lots of rice and frozen veggies, sometimes i will eat an entire load of bread in one sitting. I eat some meat/chicken/fish but its bloody expensive these days.

i went from being close to 180 to about 165(lbs) in about 7 weeks. I dont think it is healthy to lose a lot of weight in a short amount of time.

I am not trying to lose weight, just get into better overall condition- i havent exercised like this since college(about 10 years ago), i dont want to be unhealthy, I just want to be healthy and I have more energy than i have had in recent years, but i want to be smart about it. what do i do to keep my weight from dropping too much, too fast? like i said i am not really trying to drop weight, just be in better shape.

i guess this may be off topic, it has nothing to do with fruit after dinner, but when i saw all of this great information i just wanted to ask about dropping weight too fast when i dont want to drop weight in the first place

Hi iconoclasm,
Tony might offer some advice here as well. you said"i went from being close to 180 to about 165(lbs) in about 7 weeks. I dont think it is healthy to lose a lot of weight in a short amount of time."

I would suggest you are right unless it's "blubber" your losing. My suggestion would be to make sure you are eating sufficient protein, whenever you start a new exercise regime, so you breakdown fat but retain muscle. You may have to alter your eating time to later after your workout, because body temperature is also one of the things that control desire to eat (satiety, you feel full), so wait until you cool down and start to feel hungry before you tuck in so that you eat enough food. Are you overweight/underweight or perfect? Look also at the energy content of what you are eating.
Hope some of this helps

John and Tony a great round on both corners, keep up the good work.regards Coco

Thanks mate,
we haven't heard much from Tony lately, hope he is still around.
Cheers